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David Gardner: One week and every four, this podcast is powered by you. That's because our email address rbi@fool.com is always open and available to you to share thoughts, questions, reactions, stories inspired by or maybe sometimes triggered by this podcast. It's other three weeks and share back you did this month most generously. November is a bounteous month and wow, if I didn't ever get 20 pages of mailbag submissions. In fact, there's so much good stuff here that this week you and I are going to cover a record number of mailbag items. Lots of great stuff. Get ready for some fast pacing, and of course, a dollop or two of Motley through and through. Thanks to you. Only on this week's Rule Breaker Investing.
Welcome back to Rule Breaker Investing again. Happy Thanksgiving week, just past. If that speaks to you here in the United States of America, and happy holidays to all of us ahead of a most busy closing few weeks in the year of 2023. Let's look back on what this podcast did this month. Four podcasts preceded this one. There are five Wednesdays in November 2023, we started with Wingspan designing a blockbuster game with Elizabeth Hargrave, a new friend for this podcast, a new friend of mine, I'm delighted to have shared. Elizabeth meeting her for the first time at our Fool HQ Studios and talking through a fantastic board game, but more the fantastic person who dreamed it all up, built it, and what we can learn from her business success. I hope you enjoyed Elizabeth Hargrave. The second, third, and fourth weeks of this month were all kind of classic returns to episodic series. The latest episode of each, we went with Pet Peeves, Volume 8 in Week 2, Great Quotes, Volume 17 and Week 3. And then my annual gratitude podcast for 2023, of course, last week. Pet Peeves, great quotes and gratitude. We started it with games, and then we continued it with some of my favorite, I hope yours two episodic series, and I think our stuffed mailbag implies that you were engaged and did enjoy those series once again this year.
In fact, December is looking a little bit like November in this regard. Just as I started the first week of this present month with a podcast on games, well, a game wing span in this case. Well, next week starting December is my annual Games, Games, Games Volume 5 podcast. I'll be identifying some of my favorite tabletop and card games, both lighter family fair and deeper, more gamer fair next week. My annual list of five of each. I'm still putting it together, I'm excited to share that with you Games, Games, Games, Volume 5. Then indeed, December closes out with a number of returning episodic series. We have Week 2 of next month. Our Besties, my 10 favorite podcasts looking back over this year. Some cameo appearances, reappearances of some guest stars. It's The Besties one of my favorites that we do every year. That's Week 2. Then we'll have the Market Cap Game Show next month. We'll close it out with a December Mailbag. That's where we've been, November, and that's where we're going, December. Let's get right into the mailbag then with my traditional start, Twitter hot takes. I realize like a lot of the world I'm probably not alone in this. I've been trying to decide whether to go with X or Twitter, and I've decided I'm going to settle on Twitter.
Part of me feels that one day Elon may reverse his decision and go back to Twitter. I think Twitter should be called Twitter. I'm going to continue calling Twitter, Twitter. That's my hot take about Twitter this month. But here are a few reactions to this podcast from some of our listeners. Thank you, each of you. Martin at Trigs one. Martin for this note. Glad to contribute to the October mailbag, which you did with a lovely note. Martin, thank you for that. You went on to say, and agree with your excellent, inspiring commentary during these dark times. Hope and a better future we must build. Well, I agree, Martin. These are dark times across a number of different dynamics. We'll speak to that a little bit later this week's podcast. But we have to remember, the good guys outnumber the bad guys and friends. It's not even close. Let's move on to a second Twitter hot take.
Thank you, Alan Neveu. I love it. Alan writes, when I find a new friend who's an investor and when I start asking questions and seeing what makes them tick, they wind up agreeing with rule breaker ideas and philosophy that makes for fast friends. Well, Alan, thank you very much. It is a delight to encounter in the wilds, as it were, to encounter people who think the same as we do. It takes a little bit of conversation to get there. I saw another tweet on Twitter, not speaking to this podcast at all, but just a good thought about ambition and ambitious people and how ambitious people, when they get together, can really be dynamite, in the best sense of the term. This thought went on if you're an ambitious person, and I hope dear listener you are, or at least some of us are. If you're an ambitious person randomly distributed across the population, in your neighborhood or community, you may not have met many kindred spirits.
This thinking goes. But as you start to resort the world based on the schools you go to, the jobs you take, the friends that you choose into, you can all of a sudden find other ambitious people. It is ambitious people working together that represent some of the best things that humans achieve. There's a thought for you Alan, but I really appreciate your point about finding other people with rule breakery thoughts, who play the long game as investors and what a delight it is to have conversations in. Those conversations can make for fast friends. A third and final Twitter hot take. Thank you. At Garov K investor. Garov you wrote, as usual, a great one. You were reacting to my Pet Peeves Volume 8 Podcast a few weeks ago. Just like saying a lot of OK's in a sentence, Garov writes, my Pet Peeve is when someone says a lot of likes, like this and like that. I understand and that's quite common, and we're going to speak to that a little bit later in this week's podcast. You are reminding me though, Garov, that about half of our mailbag items, understandably this mailbag, are Pet Peeves submitted by some of my favorite rule breaker listeners. People who've regularly written into this podcast over the years, some new voices as well. But a major theme of this month's mailbag is your Pet Peeves. I got to share mine a few weeks ago.
Now you get to share yours through this mailbag and thank you, each of you who brought some wisdom to the mailbag items I'm about to feature. There are 12 mailbag items, and I'm going to intersperse non Pet Peeves with Pet Peeves. That's the rhythm we have going on for our November 2023 mailbag. On again, off again, we're going to start with a non Pet Peeve as we get started, gentle fools start your engines. Rule breaker, mailbag item number 1. This one comes from frequent correspondent, Mike McMahon. Mike, thank you for this. You were listening carefully to my great quotes, Volume 17 podcast, two weeks back, and I think you were reacting to Pablo Picasso's great quote, which I will reproduce right now once again, "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist." Mike McMahon went on to share a couple of rules quotes that he has appreciated, that he has saved in his second brain, which for him and for me as well, the app Readwise, a phenomenal app for book readers to collect and hold the things that you're highlighting in your reading and bringing them back to you all the time. Mike, you're making very good use of your second brain. Here are two rules, quotes that he admires and I do too, which is why I'm sharing them. The first one comes from Oliver Wendell Holmes Sr., "The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions." Good one.
The second one is from Rick Rubin, an American music producer and author of the recent book. I think this was his first book, entitled The Creative Act, A Way of Being. Here's the Rick Rubin "channeled via Mike McMahon and I quote, "Pay attention to what you notice, but what no one else sees. Rules are limitations. Rules artists learn are assumptions, they're not absolutes." It occurs to me on a lot of podcast listening apps, you can tap back 30 seconds or back 15 seconds. I think it might be worth dear listener tapping back 30 seconds and just re listening to each of those quotes for Mike, each stands on its own and is worthy of further contemplation perhaps at some quiet moment during your December. Anyway thank you, Mike McMahon. Rule breaker, mailbag item number 2. This one's from Cliff Kata. This one's short and sweet. It is an expression of a Pet Peeve I mentioned. That is a theme that is threaded through this week's podcast. Cliff, you wrote using lazy verbs like do or go is my Pet Peeve. Especially Cliff writes go as in he goes blah and then I go blah blah. Cliff goes on. Don't people say things? He said blah and I replied blah, blah. Now, to be fair, not everybody has a good grasp of the English language. It could be that in their native tongue do, is a common verb, signed Cliff Kata. Well, Cliff I appreciate that point for each of these, even if I don't fully share someone else's Pet Peeve, I always learn from it. I'm quite sure I'm guilty of this one and I will try not to be as guilty of this one in future. I do think it's elegant to say. He said, she said, he replied she replied. Not they go, they go, they go, they go. I hear you, Cliff, and thank you for kicking off a cavalcade of listener Pet Peeves on this week's podcast.
You are reminding me of one of my Pet Peeves shared earlier this month, which is people who do things, who do Paris or who do the salmon. I think you and I have a do/go thing going on between us, and I just hope other people are listening and learning. Alright, onto Rule Breaker Mailbag Item Number 3, which is actually a review of Peluzas. I'm sticking this one in here as I have with closing out five stock samplers on mailbags this year. This is the close out for my five stocks that will press on. I'm writing myself a note for this Rule Breaker Mailbag Item saying, "How did they do three years later, and what can we learn?" Five stocks that will press on. First of all, the theme goes back to the great Calvin Coolidge line. Not necessarily a great president, but the great Calvin Coolidge quote. I hope you know this one. If you don't, here it is once again. "Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not. Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not. The world is full."
These are Coolidge's words of educated derelicts. "Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan, press on has solved, and always will solve the problems of the human race." I think that's a beautiful quote. I use it a lot myself. I think about it. Press on, persistence, play the long game, hold onto your stocks through thick and thin. People too. Relationships count. Persist things that persist. You need to press on to make much else happen in your life and the lives of those you love around you. Press on has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race. I picked five stocks that on November 11th of 2020, I hoped would, A, exhibit the ability to press on, B, demonstrate the benefits of pressing on by beating the market, and well, C, I just knew I'd be here three years later to tell you the tale. For newer listeners, you should know that 30 times in the history of this podcast, I picked five stocks. I called them my five stock samplers. Each of them, the vast majority, were picked for three years. Now, if you've listened to any of them, you know that I always say that doesn't mean we sell the stocks after three years, it means that's the game that we're playing with the five stock samplers. Because if we kept holding these forever, and I reported on them every year, this podcast would be little more than review of Peluzas from one week to the next looking back at the same stocks picked years and years ago. Therefore, we made it a three year contest. That's exactly what this is.
Therefore, on November 10th of this past month, these five stocks finished their time as a five stock sampler. Let's see what pressing on looked like for Canadian National Railway, Cirrus Logic, Ecolab, Old Dominion Freight Line, and Zebra Technologies. Now, as I've reviewed these samplers over time, and I've done it at one year increments. When we picked these in November of 2020, I checked it with you. You can hear it on a podcast a year later. Talked about what had happened, what we can learn. Then I did it two years later, last year. Then now is the third and the final accounting for five stocks that will press on. The worst performer, I can now say emphatically, was Zebra Technologies, ticker symbol Z-B-R-A. The company that has been a long term leader in bar codes, RFID scanning technologies, putting tags on things and enabling people to keep track of where stuff is, whether you're a freight crane operator trying to figure out where that box is in the big warehouse. It's got an RFID tag on it. Of course, those many bar codes that still adore and so many consumer products worldwide. Zebra Technologies has been a leader, has been a long term winner.
I regret to say though it was a short-term loser. This stock I picked three years ago this month at $356.27, and three years later, as the market closed on November 10th, it had dropped from $356 to 206.18. Regrettably, a loss of 42.1% for what was a very bad three-year stock pick. Made even worse, by the way, by the market's performance over those three years. All five of these stocks were compared against the market's average; the S&P 500, over the exact same three year period went up 23.5%. By the way, that's a little bit of an underperformance, what you'd expect over a three year period, but still not too shabby and way ahead of Zebra Technologies' performance. More recently in 2023, we saw Zebra with a contracting top line, surprising analysts and predicting in the quarter or quarters ahead, further declines of as much as a third on the top line.
Zebra has been shrinking over the last year or so. The real hit came in 2022. In fact, this stock, which again, I picked at 356 in November of 2020, had gone up to 600 by the end of 2021. We'd almost had a double, and now here we are from 600 down to, it was actually below 200 last month, losing two-thirds of its value over these two years. Zebra is the number 1 loser. I'm going to say something about pressing on at the end, but let's now move forward to the best performer in this group of five. I'm sorry to say that the best performer, which did pretty doggone well was the only one of these five stocks to beat the market over this three year period. Old Dominion Freight Line, ticker symbol ODFL, the lighter than Truck Load Logistics Trucker, the Virginia-based company that makes a point of running a more complex trucking business, because they don't fill up their cabs at ODFL with just one thing. They specifically have a less than truck load business where they take some of some stuff and somebody's other stuff, and they put it all in the same truck, and it goes multiple places, and those efficient operations. It's well maintained fleet, their strategically located service centers, their advanced systems for logistics and tracking have all been great reasons that Old Dominion over this three year period went from $198 a share where I picked it to $392 a share as things closed out earlier this month.
A gain of not quite 100% but 98.3%. It couldn't just hit triple digits for me. Nope, but that still was way ahead of the market's average 23.5, which means Old Dominion gets a plus 75 in the Alpha column. Plus 75 for it, minus 66 for Zebra, so we're barely above water. The problem is Canadian National Railway, Cirrus Logic, and EchoLAB were also rails. Canadian National Railway, that leading North American transportation and logistics company, rails moving petroleum, chemicals, metals, minerals, forest products, coal and grain all across this fair continent was up 2.8% for the three years. Well behind the market. Cirrus Logic, the semiconductor company specializing in circuits widely used in audio and voice signal processing like your smartphone and your air pods and smart home devices. Cirrus Logic down 4% over the three years. EchoLAB, the most disappointing of these three, also runs the global provider of water hygiene and infection prevention solutions sounds something really valuable over the COVID-19 years. Yet, part of the reason EchoLAB declined is, we all went outdoors less. We used office space less. There was actually, ironically, less to clean up, and there was less of EchoLAB, having picked it at 210, it dropped to 178 over the three years, down 15%. Getting back out of the weeds here, taking it all in all, we have five stocks picked, one of them beat the market by 75% points. The rest all lost to the market. The worst, Zebra. The average performance of these stocks was a 7.9% gain. The market was up 23.5% meaning that I have to send five stocks that will press on Rick Engdahl up to Foolhalla, queue the glorious music as this five stock sampler ascends for the last time to Foolhalla, and make the music Rick a little sad.Because unfortunately, five stocks that will press on, which did press on, did not press on to victory over this three year period. Part of me wants to say we didn't sell them on November 10th. I hope you didn't either. If you own them, the whole point of stocks that we'll press on is we continue to hold them and watch them.
For what little it's worth, and it's not worth that much, just a couple of weeks later, those stocks that once averaged 7.9% gain are now up 12%. Indeed, Old Dominion Freight Line is now a double. We see that the three-year game of the five stock samplers does not necessarily tell the full tale of where these stocks end up over time. Next year when I do my final Review-a-Palooza for my final five stock sampler, which I think is in the early summer, I'm going to spend the week after on this podcast drawing some overall conclusions and lessons across these 35 stock samplers. Hundred and fifty stocks picked. Spoiler alert, they've done really well, despite some real losers like this one. But most of all, you should know not just how they did during their three-year periods, but how they continue to do because my spreadsheet continues to track them and follow them. So I know the longer tale stories, and I hope you as a fellow Fool and an investor are investing toward those longer narrative arcs that exceed the fun of the winning and losing sometimes five stock samplers. Enough for Rule Breaker Mailbag Item Number 3. How did five stocks that will press on do? The sad truth of it is it was a loser of a five stock sampler. But when you think about what pressing on really means, well, we'll see. On to Rule Breaker Mailbag Item Number 4. This one from my friend, longtime Motley Fool contributor Erik. Great to hear from you again, writing in from Oregon City. "Hi, David. I've been absent for a while helping to care for my now 100-year-old dad, yet I've listened to your podcast each week without fail, as you have created it for us each week without fail. Your latest Pet Peeves Episode got me to laughing, as well as at times to contemplating, which inspired me to get off my duff and write you again. I've always enjoyed this particular series, pet peeves, perhaps because I periodically notice a pet peeve or two myself and you give us all an avenue to express our peeves with humor.
I have two pet peeves to offer you, as well as a short example regarding your encouragement of higher dimensional thinking. My first pet peeve is price point. Tell me," Erik writes, "when did price become a point? Last I checked it was a continuum. A continuum quantized to the penny. Yet, how often have you heard someone, usually an analyst, even a Fool analyst, say something like that product is a value at that price point." Erik writes, "Really? That price is located at a point? Wow. Has that point always been there and this company has suddenly discovered it? How about we recast that with more specificity, such as that product is a value at that low price? Perhaps that could even be elaborated further with the phrase because it is significantly lower than any of their competitors." Now Erik writes, "I'm learning something, better diction does that." I really like that point, Erik. "When we are forced to pick our words more carefully, we actually improve our thinking and we help others learn better." Erik writes, "Now I'm learning something, better diction does that. Let's move away from the zero-dimensional thinking of prices as points, shall we? Back to at least the one-dimensional thinking of price as a continuum.
My second pet peeve is also about diction. It's remarkable how well our brain filters the spoken word, specifically filler words like you know and um and potentially. Our minds," Erik writes, "however, do a much worse job filtering the written word, so poorly, in fact, that it can become quite jarring to read. I invite you first to listen to a quarterly conference call and then to read it. Upon reading, you will quickly notice that it is replete with the filler words kinda and sorta. I have encountered some reports so bad that I had to stop reading them and go listen instead to the recording, which though a tough listen was at least sufferable. I suspect these affectations arose because analysts are obligated to interrogate management teams. But knowing it's usually best to get along with them, to build relationship over time, analysts soften their interrogation with these and other subtly subservient words. It makes for fascinating reading when seeing through this lens to see who is speaking how to whom, especially as management does it back. I really appreciate that point, Erik, about how our minds listen differently based on hearing others speak versus listening to their words as we read. You're absolutely right, we forgive. I hope you're forgiving me right now for any ums, sortas, or probably myself. But when we have to read that in a word for word verbatim transcript, all of a sudden we have much less tolerance for a filler. It shows we take in information very differently based on the ear or the eye." Anyway, let me close with Erik, challenging us toward some multidimensional thinking. Erik, you are reacting in part to one of my other pet peeves expressed a few weeks ago on this podcast, which is two-dimensional thinking.
Thank you for this closing thought. Let me now shift gears to multidimensional thinking. Erik writes, "You spoke of the linearity of such thinking as the political left versus right, or blue versus red states, or freedom versus regulatory policies. For example, in the spirit of your encouragement to expand the dimensions of our thinking, the late historian, Professor Rufus Fears of the University of Oklahoma, spoke of three principal types of freedom: political, religious, and personal. The most interesting of his examples was the Roman Empire, a governmental system which gave extraordinary personal freedom to its citizens. Considerable religious freedom, but with the caveat that all must at least acknowledge the Roman gods and no political freedom at all. It's fascinating to apply that types of freedom lens, political, religious, and personal, to the many governments around the world, including our own. As a quick addendum on your pet peeve of class action investor lawsuits, about which I'm in total agreement," Erik writes, "let me point you to the April 15th, 2016 podcast. It was number 696 of NPR's Planet Money, which is on the topic of how the modern American class action lawsuit was created in the 1960s.
As a teaser," Erik writes, "they interview its last living creator, that would be the last person who created class action lawsuits, who was still alive at the time. At the end of which, they ask him how he feels about what it has morphed into. So I kinda, sorta wanted to express my thanks for your continuing pet peeve series for its humor and insights. Your friend, Erik Eason." Well, my friend and yours, dear listener, Erik, I really enjoyed hearing from you again. Thank you for this note. I approve of both of your pet peeves and bringing a third dimension to consideration of, in this case, government and observations of governments worldwide, both present and historical. Very spot on. Thank you, Erik Eason. On to Rule Breaker Mailbag Item number 5. This one from Mark Kirch. Mark, thank you very much for this note. "Hello, David. I became a Fool in 2017, joining four different services. My results for the first four years were soundly market beating, which felt," Mark writes, "great." The past two years, however, have been anything but and I'm feeling more and more like a fool.
As I watch my personal performance converge with the S&P 500 and even drop below it. Why did I spend all the time and money only to underperform an index fund? This foolish feeling becomes even more acute when I listen to Howard Marks talk about how the past 15 years have been an anomaly because of the abnormally low interest rate environment. He says, we're in the midst of a sea change in terms of interest rates and that businesses will now have to contend with increased borrowing costs in a way they haven't for quite some time. The increased cost of capital will especially impact rule breaker kinds of companies in their early pre profit stages of growth. Mark goes on to say that given the equity like returns now available in many classes of bonds, it's worth considering reallocating capital away from stocks and toward fixed income vehicles which can now yield similar returns with less risk. If you're already getting the sense, dear listener, that I'm about to call the Motley Fool's Chief Investment Officer, Andy Cross to the stage to speak to this one. You are right, but let me Andy, finish this note first. Mark concludes how much of the success of the rule breaker style of investing can be attributed to the Fed's extraordinarily accommodative monetary policy over the past several decades. Is the free lunch for pre-profit businesses like Amazon was for so many years now over as the sea changes, will your sailing tactics also change to match it? Some would say that rules can be broken for a time, but in the end, things always revert back to the mean. Is this such a time? Best regards Mark Kirch. There's a chance K-I-R-C-H, that's pronounced Kirk, if so, I apologize that I butchered it. Mark, who does Andy include a PS? His postscript says, even though I'm not richer for being a fool at the moment, I do feel smarter. The jury is still out on happier. Though Andy Cross welcome back to Rule Breaker Investing.
Andy Cross: Thanks David. Happy and it's a great question for Mark and one we give a lot of respect to and a lot of thoughts around because we're here to help individual investors invest their capital for the long term and we know the last few years for many of our styles of investing has been difficult and so we appreciate the question Mark and respect it certainly.
David Gardner: Well, and this comes just two points after you didn't hear this part of the podcast, Andy, but two points after I'd spoken to my most recent five stock sampler, that closed down, unfortunately with underperformance from three years ago, five stocks that will press on and I believe, Andy, that those five stocks will keep pressing on and I trust/think one day they'll be beating the market. But it is definitely true that the last couple of years have been really hard for a lot of our favorite stocks, mine included.
Andy Cross: Well, that's certainly true, David. When you think about the market, it's still down from its all time highs and still if you look at the Nasdaq, larger cap growth companies down even further from its all time highs. We're still not there and that style of investing, which over time has produced some very healthy long term returns. If you look at the scorecard, and again David, we track stock advisor rule breakers, all of our services, we track all of our recommendations, so transparent about our returns, and we know the ones that are down substantially. I own many of them and many of our members who do, so we acutely feel that pain and many of us who are getting closer to thinking about more retirement than we were, or in my case, kids education. That capital is real. Those losses, we feel that, so the last few year is painful but the transparency of the returns long-term, going back and looking to those scorecards, the ones that have been here five plus years longer and those long term returns going through many ups and downs during that time period. If you go back more than 20 years a stock advisor, more than 17, 18 years in rule breakers, more than 10 years in the everlasting portfolio. Those returns have gone through lots of ups and downs, and they are beating the market and up nicely on that performance. But our style, does take the patience of investing through the very difficult times.
David Gardner: Yeah, and I think part of what we've done, Andy, is we're willing to sit on our duff. We're willing to sit on our hands and not take too much action, even sometimes knowing that the market is going to fall. Maybe this year, maybe next. I think the market's going up every year. It turns out I'm right, two out of three years. But the sad truth is, I'm wrong one in three years and so, but that's always how it's been. And so, I think the most important thing as I think about Mark's note, Andy and so many members are prospective members of the Motley Fool. I think about the importance of allowing time to happen, and I would especially say that for our scorecards that have long tenures, those gains have been achieved by not trading in and out. Those positions are basically held in place, whether it was Tesla from 2011 or Amazon back in the early Aughts or late 1990s and those stocks, by the way, have gone through some horrific drops over the course of that time. It's very important I think, to point out that not only do our long term scorecards beat the market, but they do so without trading you in and out and losing your gains through capital gains, taxes, etc. Tax efficiency is worth pointing out.
Andy Cross: Well, and David, you mentioned about doing nothing, but actually doing nothing is one of the hardest things individual investors have to learn to do or at least in our minds, it is a difficult lesson to learn, but it's also one of the most valuable and Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett talk about it sitting on their behind. They use a different word than they're behind in that. But and doing nothing is very difficult to do, as opposed to trading and panicking. Now, that doesn't mean all of our stocks are going to go up and our batting average 50-60 percent of all the stocks we recommend over many, many years go on to beat the market and so the average pick, it's not necessarily that every stock you buy is going to go up. Our members are going to go up and we recommend are going to go up. But it's the body of work over time and the willingness to, as you mentioned, sit on your behind and do nothing. But that, by doing nothing, you are actually doing something very, very positive and active for your portfolio, least we believe and that is one of the most valuable lessons to individual investors who can learn, who tend to, as we know, study show trade way too much and that is at the detriment of their long term returns.
David Gardner: A lot of it comes down to letting your winners win and it turns out for a fair number of people, that's hard to do. Part of letting your winners win. I think I already made this point, so I won't go further. But is allowing them to lose in shorter term periods from time to time, which is always going to happen and especially for our biggest winners, many of them have showed the biggest losses over shorter term time frames. My hope for Mark who became a fool, he says in 2017. Here we are. Six years later, he had four great years and two dispiriting years and seems like he's back to about even. I'm happy to say Mark, that you say you do feel smarter and I hope that you experienced that through Motley Fool services, through our podcasts, etc that means a lot to me. The richer part, I think you're up overall, but you're not beating the market in the way that you would hope to, especially if you're paying us is a little bit of a fee for advice for your stock picking. But please know that Andy and our team, every one of us are transparent. We're working for you, we're doing the best ourselves. We're usually owning the same stocks we're recommending to you. We often let you buy them first. We don't front run things at the Motley Fool. I do hope that while Andy, Mark says the jury is out on happier, I do hope that that happiness will come by being persistent dollar-cost averaging and staying foolish for the long term.
Andy Cross: Well, I think so, David, and I hope so certainly. Again, if you go back to the body of work and you look at the long-term track record, and by the way, speaking of just the point that Howard Marks has been saying the wonderful long-term investor about the environment that we're entering, yes, certainly lower interest rates absolutely have helped all kinds of risk assets perform, but we have also invested during times when the interest rates were not zero, as they were in the past, say five years or so, very, very low. That's been a benefit over the near term. I think our style of investing, which I really define as thinking about business ownership, long-term buying quality backed by leaders who have a vision for the company and ideally have large stakes, that type of business focused investing, I don't think it ever goes out of style. I don't think that's dependent on low interest rates. I don't think it's dependent on high interest rates, not dependent on, it's obviously depending on the global economy in general. But those companies tend to, at least in our experience, win over time and investing in those at least 25 stocks and holding for five years and building out your diversified portfolio as you mentioned, David. Dollar-cost averaging in those kinds of companies. I think those are the ones that are going to win long-term regardless of the environment.
David Gardner: I really appreciate that, Andy Cross, and thank you for being such a strong and positive voice at the Motley Fool for right around three decades now. I mean, I know our company's three decades old and you came in pretty darn early. Andy, you have been there and seen every market environment all the way through. Mark, who joined in 2017. He could have joined in 2007 or in 1997, he would have been our customer all the way through and we would have seen a lot of ups and downs over those decades as they go. Those will continue, by the way, going forward, my final thought is I actually think we're living into a world of increasing abundance. I think there are many signs of that, and if you look backwards, you see what's happened. My own expectation is that very high interest rates, which basically suggest that money is not abundant. It's stingy, it's hard to come by, there's a high cost of capital. I don't think that really rocks with how I think the future plays out. I think we play more toward abundance and toward lower rates. I think this is more of a temporary phenomenon and I would make a bet that interest rates will go back and stay lower, more often than not for the rest of my life, which I hope is five more decades. We'll see about that, Andy. But I think it's really important to recognize that overall stocks for the long run, along with Jeremy Siegel and many other great minds has been the way to go. To close Andy, I think I know you'd agree to. Right. If Mark wants to cancel his full services because he's not getting value from it in his mind and just invest in the index fund and just do that for the rest of his life. We're OK with that. It hurts our business a little bit, but if it helps Mark, it certainly helps a lot of the world just to dollar-cost, average int index funds. I'm just glad I never did it because I'm so much farther ahead by buying individual stocks than if I'd done that. But some of my best friends are dollar-cost averages into index funds.
Andy Cross: Well, David, I disagree because I want Mark to stay with us for life regardless.
David Gardner: [laughs].
Andy Cross: I'm joking. No, David of course. We want all of our members to get value from all of our services and our job is to make our services as best as they possibly can for individual investors who we know, like I said before, are investing their hard earned capital and we take that very seriously. Mark, we hope you stick with us because that long term journey is really important when it comes to the investing. There are lots of other service and lots of other types of investing styles out there revolving around trading, technical, all those things. But we feel very comfortable with our performance and our style, and we hope that it ultimately makes the world smarter, happier, and richer, of course.
David Gardner: Well, thank you Andy, and thank you Mark for your note. Always good to hear from Andy Cross again. Thank you Andy for joining us this week. Let's move on to Rule Breaker Mailbag Item number 6. This one is from Clevan, and if it's even numbered, it must be a peeve in this week's podcast. Clevan, thank you for writing in regarding Pet Peeves Volume 8, I share the rich getting richer Pet Peeve. I'm at home hoping the fed can get inflation under control and all I see on Facebook is my friends complaining about how expensive everything's getting between photographic evidence that they're out there making things worse. They're going to eat at fancy restaurants, traveling on expensive vacations, and jumping out of freaking airplanes. Clevan writes, meanwhile, I'm at home playing a video game I've owned for five years and eating ramen. In this notes, postscript, Clevan wants to go after the phrase crystal ball. I think this is worth sharing, so let's do it together Clevan. PS, can you please tell the entire world of finance to shut up about their stupid crystal balls already? Every Fool analyst, every guest speaker on Fool Live or Motley Fool Money. Every guest on upstart leaders in lending podcast, every want to be on YouTube and every executive on every earnings call ever. They all either wish they had a crystal ball or they actually managed to land one and somehow forgot to bring it. The hard mentality of the finance world is never so apparent, Clevan writes, as when some drone defaults to that tired. Joke. Crystal balls push the boundaries of both humor and my patience. You all have worked that joke long enough, let it retire in peace. Clevan and I am not going to look at my crystal ball to see what people think of that one. Good on you.
Onto Rule Breaker Mailbag Item Number 7. This one is from Henrik Rosenthal. Oh, my hello, David. Thank you for discussing the T-shirt test on a recent Rule Breaker Investing podcast. After seeing your question and listening to the episode I paused, Henrik writes, when my name was mentioned due to some severe positive trepidation. Well before daring to finish the episode, I had two friends listen to it instead both were impressed by the test, so I finally dared to finish it and thank you for the call out. Well, let me pause this for a second and remind especially new listeners that Henrik proposed a T-shirt test when speaking to me over Twitter a year or two back and I loved it. I talked about it at the time, and then I called it out recently, once again and Henrik's T-shirt test works like this. Because you and I as fellow rule breaker investors this is me, David, speaking to you right now, not Henrik at this point. I'm saying I think you and I should make our portfolios reflect our best vision for our future. I want to be able to look up and down your portfolio statement. I want you to be able to do the same thing and feel proud.
Feel proud of the companies that you are invested in. Feel conviction that while nobody's perfect and sure no corporation will ever be perfect, nevertheless, the efforts of the things you're invested in for profit, and I would say not for profit, to your backing of these things. If it succeeds, will lead to a better world. Because in your opinion, the product or a service or offering of that organization improves the world in little or big ways, for all of us leaves. As the cliche goes, the camp fire better than it founded and that's the way I feel about each of the stocks that I own in my portfolio and I think you should too. Having said that in the past, Henrik came up with this idea. It's called Henrik's T-shirt test, that's what I call it anyway, that we should each buy a T-shirt for each of the companies in our portfolio. And then from one day to the next, let's say over the course of a month or two, each day you wear one of those T-shirts you walk around in public, you might get some comments pro or con but it is your way to hold yourself accountable and want to feel great about the companies you're invested in. That is Henrik's T-shirt test. And now let me return to Henrik's mailbag note here. You go on Henrik, although I haven't put the test into practice by owning a piece of clothing adorned by each and every company that I'm an investor in, I am continuously evaluating whether I'm still proud to be a co-owner in all of them. Now the scales fall slightly from my eyes, Henrik as I find that even Henrik is not practicing Henrik's T-shirt test in full, but I'm not going to hold you accountable to that. It was just a chance comment on Twitter, one that I picked up on, and I think it's great. I have to admit, I haven't tried Henrik's T-shirt test either, but I love the idea and I encourage all Fools, Henrik included, to maybe pick up some of these T-shirts and wear them around from time to time and hear what people think. In closing for his mailbag.
Henrik writes, among the companies, I'm currently taking a long and hard look at, our Unity and Disney, which have made some stumbles in recent years when it comes to creating a better world for all of us. However, I continue to give them the benefit of the doubt, but we'll keep on monitoring their doings signed Henrik. Well, again, Henrik, thank you very much for writing in. I love hearing the update. I love being able to share this concept again. Fool on my friend. Onto Rule Breaker Mailbag, Item number 8. Oh my gosh. Is that an even number? Does that mean that someone else's pet peeve? Just to keep asking questions, is this my very favorite pet peeve submission of the week and maybe the year? Sam Becker, thank you for writing again. You definitely sparked joy in my household. You got me LOLing for real with this note. David, I'm writing to explore a statement, Sam Becker, writes that you made on the Pet Peeves podcast. You said at least twice that you thought earlier this month that your Pet Peeves podcast was your most self indulgent podcast of each and every year. Sam writes, I do not agree. With tongue firmly in cheek, I would suggest you are selling your self indulgence short. My nominees for self indulgence are, one, asking listeners to write in on your birthday and tell you how great you are. Two, setting aside one or two podcasts a year to talk about games. Three, inviting authors in to speak who have nothing to do with stocks, the economy, or financial matters but who wrote books that you enjoy. Four, being the MC of the market cap game and never having to disclose your own knowledge, or lack thereof. Five, playing excerpts from your old radio show to show how prescient you were in interviewing people who turned out to be great. Finally six, I do not believe that my list is exhaustive. I suggest you should be open to other nominations. I would hope also that Rick Engdahl would be permitted to add his own examples. Maybe your brother Tom could be the final arbiter. Fool on, Sam Becker.
Well Sam, great note. Thank you. That was hilarious. I think you're right. I'm far more self indulgent than I'm willing to converse or convey. You know, there's an old axiom, you've probably heard this old saw that we get the blank we deserve. You sleep in the bed you made, that thinking and this often occurs in marketing a lot. You get the marketing you deserve. Some people, over time have complained about some of our Motley Fool marketing here and there and I understand some of those complaints. In fact, I've spoken to you on past mailbags a number of different times, but you get the marketing you deserve. Anybody who's a digital marketer understands that whatever you put out there that gets the most clicks, that's the point of advertising and assuming you're doing so ethically, which I hope we always would be and have, and are generously spirited, you get the marketing you deserve. Any ad that we see on TV, on the Internet, for any of us, that's the marketing we deserve. Because assuming they're doing a good job advertising, that's the thing that causes us to react, to click, or to listen, most of all. In that same spirit, you get the bed you deserve, you get the marketing you deserve.
I feel like I get the mailbag every month that I deserve and yet sometimes the mailbag even exceeds what I think I deserve. Sam, I think you just rang that bell and I'm deeply honored to have a listener like you who listens so carefully and can call me out so very snarkily. On to something, less self indulgent Rule Breaker Mailbag Item Number 9. Thank you for this beautiful note. Jim. Hello, David, Rick, the full foundation and all Fools. It's hard to believe that the holiday season is around the corner. This time of year, Jim writes. I reflect on things that I'm thankful for and the Motley Fool is always on the top of my list. Well, thank you so much. That's so kind for you to say, Jim. This year has been an eventful and busy year for me. The biggest change within my nursing career moving from being in the intensive care unit to a field called interventional radiology. Here we are, for example, treating people endovascularly. Jim writes, when someone has a heart attack or stroke, we can go into the blood vessel and fix it by extracting the blood clots, or putting a stent in to keep the arteries open just to name a few. It's a highly specialized field. It's been challenging for my old brain. She writes, but so far I've been loving it. I believe in life long learning, and the rule breaker mindset lead a more interesting life really help me make the change. Making a career move and learning a completely new set of skills would have scared the old me. Having financial stability definitely made the decision to jump a bit easier too. Optionality is the word that comes to mind. When I was young, I remember thinking one million Thai bot, that would be the currency of Thailand as Jim is of Thai descent. One million Thai bot which equates to about $28,000. When I was young, I remember thinking that was a lot of money that I would never achieve in my lifetime. Working hard, saving, and investing in the market helped me achieve that goal and beyond. I'm also grateful to have come from a place of scarcity to have once struggled with money, so that I never take what I have today for granted. Speaking of financial freedom, Jim concludes this may be a good time to hear some updates from the Motley Fool Foundation. I'm extremely grateful for its mission and the work that you do to make financial freedom accessible to all. Thank you and the Rule Breaker Investing podcasts for being a positive force in the world. Wishing well a wonderful upcoming holiday season. Stay safe, stay healthy, and Fool on. That's signed. This is slightly self indulgent, but she wrote this. Thank you Jim. Signed my biggest fan. Well Jim, great to hear from you again. Thank you for the question about the Fool Foundation. I agree. Time for some updates and so I want to welcome back to the Executive Director of the Motley Fool Foundation, Jennifer Gennaro Oxley. Hi there, Jennifer?
Jennifer Gennaro Oxley: Hi, David. How are you?
David Gardner: Doing really great. I hope that you'll have a restful holiday season. I know it can be all of us, especially those who travel. It can be a lot during a holiday week like the one we've just lived through, and there's even more to come. I hope and trust that you'll have a lovely holiday season. I sent you Jim's note, Jennifer, when it arrived earlier in the month, just so you could get some updates ready for us. But I also got this note from Kevin McMahon in the past week or so. This comes from a slightly different angle, so I want to share this one too and have you speak to both. Sound good?
Jennifer Gennaro Oxley: Sounds great.
David Gardner: Excellent. Thank you by the way, Kevin McMahon for this note. Hello, David and Rick. Thank you David for imparting your wisdom to all Fools over the years and Rick for being the best producer that David could afford [laughs]. I began investing using Motley Fool stock advisor, Kevin writes in May of 2020 and continue to use Motley Fool services to this day. I've officially listened to every single one of your rule breaker podcast episodes, as well as every single one of the Motley Fool Money podcast episodes through the date of 11/20/2023. That is phenomenal. Kevin, thank you so much. He goes on. I donate to your Motley Fool Foundation and was hoping you could speak to what your foundation does in an upcoming podcast. Jennifer, he includes this postscript which I think we have to speak to. Kevin, an observant fellow said, I use the Charity Navigator site that grades charities. I found that the Motley Fool Foundation has a one out of four star rating. Well, that's Kevin's note. That's Jim's note. Jennifer, we want to speak to both along with some updates. I'm going to let you navigate.
Jennifer Gennaro Oxley: I think it's important for us to speak to the second note first. I think that in a life cycle of a non-profit, and we are a public charity to be clear, we are a public charity. What that means is that we are funded both by the Motley Fool and by our listeners and our donors, which are members and outside sources. That's an exciting model. It's actually unique. There's very few of us out there, and it allows us to be flexible, test, and learn, and do some really interesting things. That said charity navigator, there's a technical answer. Let me go there first. It is an incredible website. It gives you a lot of knowledge about non-profits. I'm a fan. In a public charity, you have six years to make the grade, and what that means is to make sure you have the appropriate percentage going to the people you serve versus the money you bring in the door. There is a grace period of six years. In that grace period, Charity Navigator gives you a baseline rating. We're in the baseline rating space right now, which is great. Because by the time six years hits, which by the way is three more years from now, we will hopefully be at four stars if not more.
David Gardner: Well, let's go with that. How about this? We commit to being more than one star.
Jennifer Gennaro Oxley: More than one star. That's a low bar. Now we're going to commit to higher than or lower than one star, but maybe not four. Anyways. Yes, back to you.
David Gardner: Well, actually I thought that's an excellent response. I'm glad that you started with that. I will just supplement by saying we're a start up, we're just a couple of years in and so understandably, we're overspending our means in this sense. We needed to hire a staff before our donations from the public came in. I'm very happy to say Jim and Kevin are examples of people from the public that are making our public charity sing. We're so grateful for that. We hope we're going to make some fans this week. For the Motley Fool Foundation it's work financial freedom for all our website, foolfoundation.org. I'll cover those particulars so you don't have to. Jennifer, you can focus on updates. But I do want to say, we're a scrappy start up. I think the good news is the Motley Fool is funding all of our operations. When somebody gives heard a podcast like this one shows up at our website this holiday season and donates to the Motley Fool Foundation. You should know that all of the overhead is captured and carried by the Motley Fool parent company. Thanks to my generous brother, CEO, Tom Gardner. Charity Navigator may not know that yet, but I also esteem the site. Jennifer, I think it's great that people are focused on what percentage of your giving goes out to the people that you serve. At this early stage, we're standing things up and getting moving. That's my update. What are yours?
Jennifer Gennaro Oxley: I'm excited to tell you about them. At first, let's look back. Gratitude. Gratitude to Jim and Kevin. Jim, thank you specifically, you send us notes constantly that give us wings. You're not the only one. In fact, almost 8,000 people, members, and nonmembers, have signed on to foolfoundation.org. That is a lot in a year and a half telling us that you want to pay it forward with us. But specifically, Jim constantly sending us encouraging notes and that gives us wings, so thank you. Because you know what, it's hard, the work that we do is not easy. We are in communities that are struggling, but trying, they're striving, but we need to open more doors and more pathways and we're doing that together. Just a note of gratitude to the team, to internal Fools, to members, thank you for showing up, and for all that we are and what we will be in the future. Moving on, updates, the exciting part. There will be more updates in early 2024. So stay tuned to this podcast, to our Spark Series with foolfoundation.org. But in short, what David talked about earlier, we're in start-up mode and what that means is we created a structure which is based on pilots. Those pilots allow us to test, learn, and move through.
So either we scale something or we let it go, and we're able to do that in a faster pace, that's more effective because of our member and listener support and the support from the Motley Fool. So the impact report for FY22, 23 is now up on foolfoundation.org, I encourage you to check that out. You'll see a lot about our Signature Program, the Rule Breaker Program where we fund social innovators in housing, health, education, work, and money, and we connect their work, so less people fall through the cracks. Our friend, like Jose, in California, who is helping unbanked immigrants become banked. Our friend Kimberly, in DC, who has figured out how to create a housing model that actually works for the same people we talked about earlier. One where someone doesn't have to live is too many miles away from where they work. I think it's important to know that that is just one of three different pilots we tried on in the last year. Looking ahead, we have just completed our FY26 strategy. Why that's important is it helps us focus our work. We are focused in three areas, driving investment, engagement, and awareness to financial freedom as an attainable thing for more Americans. That's really important. In this year, we're going to do three things. In those buckets, there are four areas we're going to focus on. One of which we're going to hold for a special announcement in January of next year and we really want you to stay tuned for that. But the three others that I want to mention briefly, David, we all think about, how do we track financial freedom? How do we actually track that? It's really hard and I have to tell you it's not been easy to figure out. But I think we may be getting close.
So we are partnering with the Financial Health Network to conduct a study around financial freedom in the US, showing us where we are as a community in housing, health, education, work, and money, individually and collectively, and what we can do about it. We hope after the study is complete that we'll then create a tool that we all can use to assess where we are, and then provide resources on our website, at the Motley Fool website, the Motley Fool Foundation website, to help us all actually take that next critical step toward financial freedom. So that's Number 1. First, it's about learning where we are in this country, the second is about creating the tool. Then two more things, one is the Spark Series, bringing attention to that series that you're hosting, David, every single month, where we do explore opportunities and things that are working. We also dig into areas where we don't agree, and I think that that's an important piece of the work of the foundation. Then the third is Fools for Good. So we have done a volunteer effort with the employees of the Motley Fool for the last two years, and this year, in select cities, we're going to do it with you, our members. So stay tuned for announcements on that because there are so many of you who have asked us, how can we get involved? How can we do something that's hands-on? I'll tell you we're coming up with new ways to do that. So stay tuned for that. Those three areas are exciting and much more in the next year.
David Gardner: Well, and I want to thank you this Month of Thanks, Jennifer, for your outstanding leadership that you've given as our Founding Forming Executive Director, I'm pretty sure your first day at the Fool was February 14th, 2020. So about 3.5 years ago, you've gotten to know so much about our membership, so much about the world at large, specifically focusing on financial freedom. You've been a wonderful leader for us and I'm looking forward to our next three years. You mentioned our strategic plan which is now in place and we're all systems go here as we enter 2024. I want to close with two things. The first is I want to remind everybody that you can find out more at foolfoundation.org, we'd love to have you sign up, become 8001st for us as somebody following. It's just basically a monthly e-newsletter of what we're doing as well as an invitation to whatever my next Spark Series. It's a Motley Fool Rule Breaker Investing podcast, except it's focused for one hour, once a month on financial freedom. Interviewing bright lights from the world at large that know a lot more about that than I do. That's our Spark Series and that's what you sign up for at our website. We'd love for you to, of course, donate your time, treasure, and talent. Many in the Motley Fool community already are.
We're looking forward to a lot more of that in 2024. The second thing I want to close with, Jennifer, is the end of Jum's follow-up note because she wrote, in conclusion for this Mailbag, Item Number 9, she wrote this, I also have more great news. She writes, I'm very happy to let you know that I've updated my living trust, and the Motley Fool Foundation is one of the foundations named in my trust. I am very passionate and will continue to be a supporter of the Motley Fool Foundation. Hopefully, when I no longer walk the Earth, part of what's left of my wealth is continuing to support financial freedom for all. So please thank everyone at the foundation, please let your fellow Rule Breakers know how much I'm grateful for their work to help others become financially stable. So, Jennifer, I want to thank you for your appearance here this week, and we both want to thank Jum for her fantastic gesture, not just a gesture, real action, adding the full foundation to her living trust.
Jennifer Gennaro Oxley: We can do this together. It's the bottom line. Kindness multiplied over time together with smart solutions. It's where we're made of at the Fool, smart solutions that we expand, and I'm so proud to be a part of this with you David and the Motley Fool, and Jum, gosh, you just make me so emotional. This is so great. Thank you so much for doing this. It means a lot to me and everyone else, especially the people we serve.
David Gardner: Well, three more left. Here we go. Rule Breaker, Mailbag Item Number 10 and it's an even number. So let's talk about another worthy pet peeve Rich from Media, Pennsylvania. Now before I read Rich's, I want to make it clear, I got a lot of great notes and I'm sorry that I didn't get to share yours, dear listener. If near the end of this podcast, you're like, but I wrote in a note with a good Pet Peeve but David's probably not going to read mine 'cause this is actually the last pet peeve for this podcast. But I want you to know, I really appreciate it. So thank you for all of the great notes. Thank you, Sam, for writing in. Thank you, Greg Roe. Thank you, Bob Johnson, and all of these were appreciated, I just can't fit them all in about an hour or so on this podcast this particular month. But for Number 10, Rich from media Pennsylvania. Yeah, I fit this one. And, hi, David, I've been a regular listener to your Rule Breaker Investing podcast for many years now. Thank you for the investment advice, the life advice, and the entertainment. I enjoyed your recent Pet Peeves podcast, and in keeping with the linguistic focus, I would like to add one of my own.
Rich writes, this turn of phrase popped up several years ago and seems to have become the standard salutation upon parting ways. You're ready, have a good one. It takes much self-control for me not to respond with, have a good, what? "While I'm thinking of all the polite and not so polite things a good one could mean, of course, the well-meaning individual means have a good day," Rich concludes. "So why not just say have a good day Fool on, Rich from Media Pennsylvania." Well, Rich, you've inspired me to ask, what tops it? That's one of the Motley Fool's core values, by the way, innovation and specifically topping it. Not being satisfied with merely criticizing what is, but to propose a better solution in its place. I thought, Rich, you and I should reach out to ChatGPT and find a better alternative for have a good day. Because while I agree with you, have a good day tops have a good one. I think some people are not satisfied by have a good day or have a nice day, it sounds too rote.
Turning to ChatGPT and recognizing the importance of the prompts that we send ChatGPT, here's what I did in preparation for this week's podcast. I asked what are five excellent replacement phrases for have a good day. I went on and I asked because have a good day or have a nice day have become so threadbare that they come off to some people like pablum. Pablum with a good dose of saccharin mixed in. I'm quite sure there are more interesting, perhaps even disarmingly interesting phrases to use in its stead. Here are the five phrases that ChatGPT recommended back to me to top have a good day. Here they are. Number 1, make today amazing. Number 2, wishing you a day as wonderful as you are. [laughs This strikes me, on the one hand, as a little bit too intimate or too knowing. But on the other hand, it's hilarious because if somebody isn't that wonderful, for example, if they've treated you very poorly and your customer service agent saying wishing you a day as wonderful as you are could be a backhanded wish. Number 3, ChatGPT replacement for the phrase have a good day, enjoy every moment of your day. Number 4, hope your day is filled with little moments of happiness, that takes way too long to say. Number 5, and I think this one's a bit forward, too, some might say a bit too flirty. May your day be as bright as your smile. Having looked at those, I decided I could come up with a better prompt. Because clearly, with the possible exception of make today amazing, these don't really suffice. My last prompt leading to this final list was I wrote down to gain regular use, these phrases need to be from 1-4 words, six syllables total at the most.
Try again, I asked ChatGPT, and here are the final five, the phrases that could, in future, replace have a nice day, have a good day. Here they are. Number 1, shine today. Number 2, joyful moments. I'm going to withhold commentary until I finish this short list. Number 3, stay splendid. Number 4, go thrive. Finally, Number 5, be radiant. There they are. ChatGPT signed off by saying these brief phrases convey positive wishes in a lively and succinct manner. I think we can all agree with that. The question is, are any of these idiomatically fitting? Are any of these emotionally appropriate? Does AI understand how humans speak to each other? I think the jury's out. It did get better with that second prompt, I'm going to say, and this is a personal challenge for me to you, dear listener, that you pick one of those five and one or more times in the week ahead, maybe just today. Use it in place of have a nice day or have a good day or whatever you're going to say, go with either, to recount, shine today, joyful moments, or stay splendid, or go thrive. Finally, be radiant. I think for me, I'm going to stick with the first of those, shine today. Get out there and use one of these things and maybe report back. Rbi@fool.com is the email address for next month's closing annual mailbag. Friends, shine today. Onto Rule Breaker Mailbag Item number 11.
This one from Debbie Goodman. First off, Debbie, I want to thank you very much for taking the time to write the note that you did. You put me in mind of a favorite quote from my favorite book of 2022, and that was Building a Second Brain. The author, Tiago Forte. At one point, here's what Tiago writes and it reminds me of your note to the mailbag this month. He wrote, "It takes courage and vulnerability to stand up and deliver your message. It takes going against the grain, refusing to be quiet and hidden in the face of fear. Finding your voice and speaking your truth is a radical act of self-worth. Who are you to speak up? Who says you have anything to offer? Who are you to demand people's attention and take up their time?" I suppose one of the reasons I love that quote is because that's how I feel sometimes. That's what I'm trying to do on this podcast is give the truth out as best I can see it and be vulnerable, encourage people to challenge me back. We've already done some of that this week, and we're about to do it right here.
Thanks to you, Debbie Goodman. "Hello, David. My name is Debbie Goodman, and I have been a Fool for many years and a keen listener of the Rule Breaker podcast. Despite my name, English is not my first language, so I apologize if my mail is not eloquent. I've been debating whether or not to write to you about this, whether there's any point, but have nevertheless decided to do so just in case it does make a difference. In the October mailbag, two weeks after the horrific terror attack in Israel, you spoke about the Israeli-Hamas war. You started off by making an important note about the economic damage that aggressors do to their own economies. But then you recollected your visit to Israel and Palestine in 2014 and mentioned an event hosted by the Parent Circle Families Forum organized by bereaved families from both sides. By doing this, you implied that both sides were wronging the other. You did not condemn one of the most brutal, barbaric terror attacks in our times that took place two weeks before. As someone who values you and your opinions, I really hope that you did so only for business considerations. The situation," Debbie goes on, "is not in 'equal'." There are good guys and bad guys. In this case, Israelis are peace-loving, non-violent, warm, and generous people and would be more than happy to live in peace and mutual prosperity with their neighbors.
Israel does not get anything whatsoever from occupying Gaza and, in fact, exited Gaza back in 2005. Hamas, fueled by Islamic fundamentalism, has used billions of dollars, which the Palestinians have received over the years from all over the world, to build attack tunnels and arm themselves instead of in order to create a better life for their people. Unfortunately, the Palestinian people themselves brought Hamas to power and at least until recently supported it." Now Debbie writes on from there, I'm not going to read all of this well-written note, I am going to read some more of it though and some key sections. But I just want to acknowledge that I'm skipping some parts and moving right down to this personal expression. Debbie writes, "I know our soldiers. They are my sons and those of my neighbors. They are decent human beings who were raised on democratic and liberal values. Students, musicians, chess players, high tech entrepreneurs, family people, people of all walks of life, and professions. They would much prefer to live in peace and continue their routine and not risk their lives in a war against terrorists. But they have no choice but to protect our country home to Jews, Arabs, Christians, and Druze. Israel must defend itself and will do so despite the hypocrisy and hatred we experience from all over the world. We have no other choice. In conclusion, Israel may not be perfect and I don't always agree with the party in power, but we are a democratic country with human rights and equality for all our citizens without differences of religion, race, and gender. We have no other choice but to defend ourselves.
Many of the Muslim citizens of Israel condemn Hamas and there are many moving stories of heroism and mutual aid of Jews to Arabs and Arabs to Jews, even in these troubled times. Hoping for better days in our region and around the world, all the best. Debbie and my husband," she adds at the end, "suggested I add a quote by Churchill, 'I decline utterly to be impartial as between the fire brigade and the fire." Well, I'm going to reply with three thoughts back. Obviously, this is a topic that is extremely emotional, extremely timely, extremely complex, and not squarely within my focus. It's a lot more, Debbie, within your own because of where you live and what you're going through. So please take my brief thoughts as statements from an observer, not an actor. I'm nowhere near the limelight or even the stage for this one. So three thoughts in brief. First, there is absolutely no justification for horrific acts of murder, or torture, or any evil thing. Every single innocent person who dies, most of all the civilians of whom many have died on both sides, is a human tragedy that affects all of those people who love that person, who are part of their community.
If you do the math on it, by the way, humanity all around planet Earth is reduced in terms of our numbers, our capabilities, our resources, our possibilities when we lose each other full stop. Heinous and barbarous acts, most of all, terrorism, but indeed present in every war of scale are among the most regrettable, horrible things that happen on our planet. I have no sympathy for perpetrators. I hope, and I do pray, that justice is served in every case, that the truth out, and that the bad guys, who by the way, are so far outnumbered by the good guys, get their come up, and I'd say preferably in court. Second, I totally respect your opinion. I agree with most of it. It was really eloquent, especially in light of English not being your first language. I also want to say that as a fellow fool, Debbie, we share an extra bond that makes me respect you and your husband with his great quote all the more. I think that would be true of many listeners hearing us right now on the podcast this week. You're a fine writer and you're expressing complex feelings in a way that connects with me and us.
I think one difference might just be that I'm thinking a lot about all the Palestinians who hate Hamas, who want nothing to do with it. This is actually akin, when you think of it, to so many countries in the world where a repressive, dictatorial ruler, with no regard for the people they lead, destroy, trust businesses, humans, value of all kinds, and yet tragically, the vast majority of people they are supposedly leading do not side with them. Would not ever want to share a beer with them, let alone be ruled by them. But because of power dynamics, history, and how fear works, they have to. I think that's true of many Palestinians. Palestinians who themselves are often treated like second-class citizens, not just by Israelis, but by much of the Arab world. If you follow the news in a recent shooting in the state of Vermont here in the US this week, Palestinians often suffer reprehensible treatment and acts of violence themselves. Truly, there's so much hurt and pain here, back and forth for decades. Terrorism, displacement, the list goes on. That in the words of my friend, Bill, it's, and I quote, a tragic and seemingly intractable problem.
In fact, let me share a bit more from my friend, Bill, who recently graduated as a middle-aged man from a Harvard Continuing Adult Learning Leadership Fellowship. Bill wrote me, "One of our closest friends in my class is Israeli. She reports from Tel Aviv while her son is now fighting in Gaza, and another close friend in my class is Jordanian, and her father was displaced back when the Israeli state was formed." So I would say, Debbie, stories like these that are interwoven in a way that creates constant conflict and it hurts to think about, and I guess I can only say, as I did on the October mailbag, that there are good guys and there are bad guys on both sides. I don't mean to say they number the same, I don't mean to say they are equally angelic or equally reprehensible. With this much conflict, I think every case has to be looked at contextually, individually. But it's just not practical to do in times of great upheaval and loss of life. I guess my final third point is just that while I have many more Jewish friends than Palestinian friends, I do have some Palestinian friends, and as I remarked in that October mailbag, what we even mean by the word Palestine is unclear unless we know its context. For example, I have Palestinian Christian friends, they couldn't dislike Hamas more. I have a hard time generalizing Palestinians with these friends, who by the way are also students, musicians, chess players, entrepreneurs, family, people, and especially as a Fool, I think I tend to be curious, maybe sometimes supportive of the other side in situations especially when that side is judged to be weaker and or crazier because, in a sense, that's what Fools do.
As Fools, we challenge conventional wisdom. At least in my circles, there's a lot of broad brushing right now of Palestine as if it's all Hamas-supporting and Hamas-driven. Yes, I'm very clear that there is anti-Semitic talk and people that is long-standing and we're talking about going back centuries that no doubt you and others of my Jewish friends have had to face as well. I, as a white person of admitted privilege growing up at the time that I did in the country that I did have not had to face or feel many of these feelings that live with some people every day. Although I will also say there was a time when my Irish ancestors were not treated very well, as Irish immigrants were not treated particularly well a century or so ago. One of the tragic things about human history is we just don't treat each other very well. At least we didn't back then. I actually think we do a lot more today than back then, even though there's still so much badness in the world. Anyway, that's all I want to say, Debbie. There could be more, I suppose I'm open to another response, but this is really not a big focus of this podcast. I did feel a need to speak to it, and I love that you wrote the note that you did, and I thank you for that, and I wish you the best. Well, let's close it out with number 12.
Now, I realize my even numbers were pet peeves this month, but I ran out of pet peeves and just got left with this beautiful note from Louis writing in from Spain. Louis, thank you for this closer, for this month's mailbag. "Hello, David. I just finished listening to your Gratitude 2023 episode and felt the need to write to you. I started as a listener of your weekly edition of the Motley Fool Money podcast in 2020, and now it's part of my daily routine on my way to work. In one of their episodes, they mentioned your Rule Breaker Investing podcast and I've become a weekly listener since then. After almost three years of enjoying all your Foolishness, I've just signed up last month to your Motley Fool Stock Advisor service." Well, thanks, Louis. He goes on. "That's why I want to thank you all. Thanks for helping me and many others like me find the courage to take control of our destiny so that we can provide a better life for us when we retire and for our families when we're no longer there. But let me especially thank you for the Gratitude 2023 episode. When listening to it, I realized that I don't say thank you enough. So I sent a thank you note to all the members of the teams that I lead at work. I said a thank you message to my wife and another to each of my two daughters. The result of these small actions, not only toward me, but among them, was lacking a better word beautiful. I can tell you that yesterday was a day to remember, and that was because of your podcast. So thank you for helping me be a better me. Happy Thanks Fool Giving.
All the best from a fellow Fool from Spain. Fool on, Louis." Well, I make a point on many of my listy podcasts, especially so many mailbags of saving best for last. Now, I can't say objectively that that was the best note this month, Louis, but it was certainly my favorite. Thomas Jefferson has a great line about ideas and candles. He actually spoke about ideas and tapers, but tapers, as you may know, are just an English synonym for candles. Here's the great Jefferson line, and I quote "He who receives an idea from me receives instruction himself without lessening mine. As he who lights taper at mine receives light without darkening me". So now we see this Jeffersonian dynamic in play. I can share with you an idea like more gratitude. Through this podcast, I see that I lit your candle. I lit your candle, and mine was no poorer or dimmer for it. On the contrary, the world lit up a little bit more. That was thanks to you, Louis, and the actions that you took. I'm so happy to learn of this as we get ready to welcome the final month of the year next week. We're still in November, and I want to say to each of you who took the time to write me these past few weeks. Thank you. Louis, you've made my November. Fool on.
John Mackey, former CEO of Whole Foods Market, an Amazon subsidiary, is a member of The Motley Fool’s board of directors. Andy Cross has positions in Amazon, Tesla, and Walt Disney. David Gardner has positions in Amazon, Canadian National Railway, Tesla, and Walt Disney. Jennifer Gennaro Oxley has no position in any of the stocks mentioned. The Motley Fool has positions in and recommends Amazon, Old Dominion Freight Line, Tesla, Unity Software, Walt Disney, and Zebra Technologies. The Motley Fool recommends Canadian National Railway, Cirrus Logic, and Ecolab. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy.
