Former Globe columnist Elizabeth Renzetti.
Am I a bad feminist if I get Botox? Are Canadians too complacent about our abortion freedoms? Why does it feel like we’re backsliding when it comes to issues of equality?
These are among the questions the indomitable Elizabeth Renzetti, former Globe and Mail columnist, tackles in her important new book: What She Said.
Recently, I sat down with Liz to talk about these issues, why she wrote the book and how she’s feeling about the state of feminism in 2024.
First, I want to say we miss you here very much and it was lovely to spend time with your voice again. Let’s start big picture: why did you want to write this book?
I wanted to write it because we’re farther from gender equality than we think we are, especially for certain groups of women. And on top of that women’s rights are being rolled back around the world.
What She Said: Conversations About Equality, by Elizabeth Renzetti.Supplied
Perfect segue to my next question: we’re a few years out from #MeToo. After a bunch of initial gains, it really feels like there has been a backlash in the culture.
There’s good evidence to show that we are backsliding. I have to give credit to Susan Faludi, whose 1991 book Backlash documented this. What she said, essentially, was that any time there is even the tiniest incremental gain in women’s rights, there is an even larger set of consequences, backlashes and repressions that go along with it. We’re seeing that now around the world: the most obvious and most extreme example is in Afghanistan women are not even allowed to speak in public, but we also see it in America where women are dying because their reproductive rights have been taken away.
So what do we do here? How do you continue to try to move the ball forward while also knowing that some of these efforts are actually pushing the ball further back?
It does seem like a little bit of a paradox, doesn’t it? But there is no alternative except that we move toward equality for all people and that is across economic lines, racial lines, and gender lines. It is non-negotiable.
We already touched on abortion, but let’s circle back to that. Compared with the United States, things on this front seem to be going well in Canada. Is abortion at least one thing we don’t have to worry about on this side of the border?
No, definitely not. For one thing, it’s harder to get a surgical abortion in certain places in the country, for example, in some of the Atlantic provinces. Also, it’s not just about ensuring abortion rights, it’s access to reproductive justice, which is a whole suite of health care needs. For example, Indigenous women and Black women have much worse maternal outcomes in this country. As I say in the book, the issue of the sterilization of Indigenous women is not something that is in the long distant past. We need to look at the politicians who we’re going to be electing and ask them: how are they going to ensure not just abortion rights, but access to reproductive justice. I don’t think we can afford to be complacent. Just because things aren’t as bad here as they are in the States doesn’t mean that they can’t take a turn for the worse.
Each chapter in the book tackles a different issue that women are facing and one of the ones that really resonated with me – I just turned 40 – dealt with aging and vanity. I’m a feminist and I want to embrace aging, but I spend all this money on creams and serums trying to look young. I feel like a hypocrite.
Robyn, you are not a bad feminist. Every time you look on Instagram, or at a magazine, or on TV, you see women who look like skinned peaches. It’s telling you: this is what’s valuable. We tell women “Embrace, aging! You’re only going to get better! You go girl!” and then on the other hand, we have this maybe trillion-dollar industry devoted to telling us that we are an old hag if we have a single wrinkle or the tiniest little jowl sag. I’m as vain as anybody. I dye my hair. I spend a million dollars on skin care and makeup. How are we supposed to live in this crazy making world?
I appreciated in the book that you discuss the fact that there can be actual economic consequences for women.
Yes, women are penalized. We have evidence of this in the workplace. That is one of the reasons I keep dyeing my hair. I had a friend who told me she gets Botox because she works in an industry with young people. She said “I just have to because I need to look as though I fit in with them so that I will get a promotion, or not get laid off.” I think we have to embrace and salute and hold up the women who choose to age naturally. Your Frances McDormands and Isabella Rossellinies, who show us that you can look your age and still be stunning. Also more power to all the fantastic women who are letting their hair go grey naturally.
You end the book talking about Taylor Swift. Are you a Swiftie?
I’m not going to lie. I was not a couple of years ago. Her music was too poppy for me. But then I started listening to her lyrics. These are like beautifully crafted songs. And it’s also what she represents that’s so interesting to me. On one hand, she’s empowered, she’s creative, she’s making her way in the world, she’s the mistress of her universe. But on the other hand, she still suffers from being part of a patriarchal system. She is a survivor of sexual violence. She has talked about having a poor body image. Sometimes she is a victim of the most incredible, horrible things – deep fake pornography. She is constantly being scorned and spurned by conservative forces who are afraid of what she represents, that kind of individuality and power.
Okay last question: You’ve spent a lot of time thinking about these issues, you spent a career thinking about these issues. Are you hopeful for what’s next for us?
I have to be hopeful or I would never get out of bed.
This interview has been edited and condensed.